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Lieutenant Angus Newton: You know, it is really just so fun. You can’t beat that. That’s training that’s unprecedented. You only get this kind of stuff in the military.

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Captain Orton: Hi this is Captain Adam Orton from the Canadian Army Podcast and we’re going to be talking about Assault Pioneers. If you’ve been on the Internet in the past decade, you might see the meme of lumberjack commandos, big burly people, ready to smash things. With me to explain to us a little bit more of what that’s about is Lieutenant Angus Newton from the Princess Louise Fusiliers, and he’s a course officer on an Assault Pioneer Course. Welcome to the podcast.

Lt Newton: Thanks so much for having me.

Capt Orton: First things first, tell us a little bit about your career, and how you got where you are today.

Lt Newton: Sure. So I joined the Reserves about 10 years ago, out of high school as a way to get away from a dishwashing job that my parents had made me work at. And since then I kept it through university. It helped me pay for my economics degree and I kept it while I worked in the financial sector in downtown Halifax. And a couple years ago I took the commission, and I’ve been working a Class B job at the local headquarters with 36 Brigade as I spearhead the pioneer movement on the East Coast.

Capt Orton: Yeah, from the financial district to blowing things up.

Lt Newton: Yeah, it’s quite the difference isn’t it?

Capt Orton: So, I wouldn’t be doing this right if I didn’t address the myth of the Assault Pioneer that’s something that’s at least been around for as long as I’ve been in. And, if you haven’t seen it there’s this meme on the internet where you have just these massive bearded guys sitting there looking really angry, clearly, in uniforms in the 80’s. And I think a lot of people associate that picture with what pioneers are about. Tell us a little bit about what the role of Assault Pioneers is.

Lt Newton: Sure. That's a picture that I’ve seen circulated often too. It’s pretty funny but we are technical trades people who provide the Infantry with capabilities that were formerly exclusively held by the Combat Engineers. Some people call us light engineers but we have now taken back some of those skill sets and we apply them to the dismounted infantry context. So, we’re organic to the Infantry, we are infanteers first, but we provide the skill sets for greater mobility and counter mobility, and to provide the commander with flexibility on the battlefields. So, to summarize we are like light engineers. It’s a new skill set. Well, I should say relatively new, but we used to have it in the 90’s and now we are bringing it back.

Capt Orton: Can you talk maybe a little bit to why it went away, and why it's time to bring it back?

Lt Newton: You know I can’t really speak to why it went away, I’m sure there are reasons. But what I do know is that the Commander of the Canadian Army saw its value in bringing it to the Reserves as well as the Regular Force as a means to strengthen the Army Reserves and bolster recruitment, as well as to increase our operational capabilities and our ability to support the Regular Force overseas. And so far it’s been a success and hopefully at the conclusion of this course that we’re running we’ll have a platoon-plus of soldiers that are eager to support the Regular Force overseas on ongoing operations.

Capt Orton: So, from what I understand, from what you’ve explained so far, if you consider your average infantry section or platoon, you’ve got, let’s say 45 or so soldiers. And, within that group you need certain capabilities. And, if you consider for example the role of the medic, you’ll have a medic attached there to provide medical assistance, but sometimes one person isn’t enough or there is no availability. So, maybe you have at the section level you have some tactical combat casualty care, soldiers who have an extra level of medical training to support your medics. And it would seem that the Assault Pioneers kind of also bridge that gap between having an actual engineer attached in, and kind of engineering-ish assets included in your infantry platoon to get things done.

Lt Newton: Yeah you nailed it because the engineers, they do everything, and they are so overtasked as it is that having the pioneers at the local level, organic to the infantry battalion, provides us with the ability to work in the close fight without relying on the engineers. So as infanteers we are fixated on the close-range fight, we’re at the 300-600 meters. So as pioneers we can provide the commander with the flexibility to, say, breach a man-made or natural obstacle that we would have otherwise relied on the engineers for.

Capt Orton: So, can you break down maybe a little bit more what your baseline Assault Pioneer training looks like and the individual skill sets that you work on?

Lt Newton: The Basic Assault Pioneer Course is a five-week course that involves theory and practical lessons on everything from hand tools to the use of demolitions in the infantry. So it’s a very encompassing course, with many different skill sets that the soldiers are expected to learn and master. And, to be able to employ at the Dismounted Infantry Company context.

Capt Orton: And what does the average training exercise look like as a part of that process?

Lt Newton: Well the course, like I said, involves a practical portion that sees us employed in the field, oftentimes in the woodline, chopping, felling trees with chainsaws, or using demolitions on the range to breach concrete targets. Or using light breaching in an urban context; so blowing through doors. But on exercise we can be used in a vast array of contexts. In the defensive, in the offensive. Like I said, we are used to providing the Commander with greater mobility and countermobility. So, wherever we are needed we can go.

Captain Orton: How do you hope this is going to affect unit level exercises?

Lt Newton: That is a good question because there is so much more we can do now. The Primary Reserves for the longest time, we were primarily focused on basic infantry skills. I’m not demeaning the importance of that, that is still our number one priority is our IBTS for our infantry skills. But what we can now do is, we can plan more complicated, more inclusive exercises to, say perhaps involve a patrol that sees members crossing a river via assault boats. Or breaching through an urban ops village using light explosives. The list goes on and on, but it definitely opens up our capabilities and the training that we can do.

Capt Orton: Right on. You know, what’s your favourite part about this training?

Lt Newton: You know, it really is just so fun. And it has a lot of hands-on skills. So as someone that comes from the financial sector, who may not have had that much experience, you know, using the chain saw, taking apart a hydraulic breaker, or using a 25-horsepower outboard motor, you can’t beat that. That’s training that’s unprecedented anywhere else. You only get this kind of stuff in the military. So, all I can say is it’s fun, it’s challenging, and it’s rewarding.

Capt Orton: I’m going to shift gears a little bit. Talk to me a little bit about rebuilding this capability. As you said, you're kind of doing the training and development for this at 36 Brigade. How are you rebuilding this capability? What avenues have you been taking to try to get that, maybe open up those old books from 10, 20 years ago? And what resources have you been tapping into to try and rebuild this program? And how is it different?

Lt Newton: So, yeah. Firstly we have relied very heavily on the engineers, obviously. They are the centre of excellency for all of this training, specifically demolitions. So, they are the first people we go to whenever we have questions. Secondly to that is, obviously, the massive logistical challenge of attaining all the equipment that is needed to conduct this level of training. So, this course requires, like I said, a whole list of hydraulic equipment, chain saws, outboard motors, boats, shotgun, the use of ballistic, mechanical, thermal breaching. So, it’s been a logistical challenge and of course the engineers have been there every step of the way with us. We’ve relied heavily on 36 CER and 4 ESR up in Gagetown, and the Infantry School up there as well. They stood up the Pioneer cell who have been with us the entire way and we really lean on them for the answers.

Capt Orton: Have you had to tap into any of the old assault pioneers from days past?

Lt Newton: Yeah it’s funny because I was on course a couple of months ago with a pioneer from the '90’s and it was just pretty interesting to hear his stories, him coming from a tour in Bosnia, and he was actually employed in the pioneer platoon. And we have gone back to the old publications, the old PAM’s, and I say we, but I mean the Infantry School, and CFSME. They've re-written them to accommodate for the modern world that we live in and the changing global situation. But a lot of it has stayed the same. Demolition is as old as war itself. Some of the stuff dates back to the Second World War, and we take a lot of the lessons learned from Bosnia and from Afghanistan. I guess that’s where we are now; still in the process of developing these TTPs and how it applies to the Infantry, and where the ARCS are, and where the engineers and we fit in.

Capt Orton: I have perhaps a slightly more controversial question, we will see where that goes. Talk to me about the integration into the Regular Force, and how this capability is being used in a Regular Force context. And I don’t know if you have any awareness on where that’s going in the future, but if you care to comment on it.

Lt Newton: Yeah just make sure you bleep out my name at the end of this. You know, I was on course with practically all Regular Force members on the Assault Pioneer Commander Course. So, they’ve stood up their own companies, and they are in the full swing of things. Our goal is simply to augment them, as we would during any operation or training exercise. We’re there to provide that extra 20 per cent, and that’s our goal; to get to the level that they feel comfortable in taking us. That’s why we’re striving hard to train our guys as hard as possible. And to the level we feel is needed to go overseas and work with the Regular Force. But we’re confident.

Capt Orton: So, as you're developing this capability, that capability is being developed and integrated into the Regular Force. And what role does the Regular Force have in developing Assault Pioneers as well?

Lt Newton: So, the commander has given us an FOC date of 2021.

Capt Orton: Oh, explain FOC.

Lt Newton: It’s Full Operational Capability by 2021 is our goal. And our goal is to be able to augment the Regular Force battalions and to support their pioneer companies that they are now in the process of standing up. I know 22 Van Doos they’re on deck next to go overseas; whether that’s in Iraq or Latvia I’m not sure. But for a Van Doo for example, they’re sending section-plus to them of their pioneers. And we are looking forward to providing the same support to our Reg Force battalion. So, our goal is to make sure that we have the requisite members trained to the level that we feel comfortable sending overseas with our Reg Force counterparts.

Capt Orton: So, do you have any good stories or experiences as you’ve been going through this whole process of developing this capability from, I wouldn’t to call it from scratch, but more or less from scratch.

Lt Newton: A lot of the groundwork had already been done, and luckily all we had to do was go off the lessons learned of our counterparts in Gagetown and out west. So, some fun stories? I mean, there’s nothing more fun than a demolition range. And I tell that to all the soldiers, and they believe it as soon as they get out there and they get to handle explosives and to set them off. And you truly see the shock and awe once a manufactured shape charge goes off. So, it is such a fun skill set that you learn. And the skills are so applicable to your civilian life as well; hand tools, you go through everything. So, for anybody who’s looking to join, that’s my first thing that I talk about is: “Listen there’s this capability that they are bringing back, and they're bringing it to the Reserves as well. And here’s your chance.” And I think I just digressed completely off of what the question actually was. You asked for a good story and I didn’t give you it.

Capt Orton: You covered off like 6 other questions that I had on my list.

Lt Newton: I didn’t have the answer you wanted so I talked about something else entirely.

Capt Orton: Yeah, listen it’s all good; it's free form conversation. I think that’s alright. I think that’s pretty good; I think we’ll wrap up on that. Is there anything else you want to add?

Lt Newton: No, I just thank you so much for reaching out and giving us this exposure. We’re a small unit in Halifax and we’re always looking for new members to join the unit. You know, people who want to try something challenging, fun, rewarding, work as a team. So, I again thank you for this and it’s nice to meet you. I hope to get to try this again, because this is such a new experience. And I guess podcasts are the future now that we’re all stuck at home too.

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Capt Orton: Yeah true enough. Well, thanks a lot. I really appreciate you coming on as well.

Lt Newton: Yeah thanks so much.

Capt Orton: That was Lieutenant Angus Newton from the Princess Louise Fusiliers and the Assault Pioneer Course Officer.

I want to take a quick second to talk about a great event, it’s awesome to check out. Canada Army Run this year is virtual, it’s taking place in September. You can sign up at www dot armyrun dot ca and podcast listeners get to save $5 using the CAP promo code. That’s Charlie, Alpha, Papa, so check it out, it’s a great time. Stay safe out there.

Orton out.

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