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Lieutenant-Colonel Sarah Heer: We are not here to impose Canada’s way of doing business on our Ukrainian partners, we are here to help them develop their own way of doing things.

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Captain Adam Orton: Hi this is Captain Adam Orton from the Canadian Army Podcast. This episode is a little bit special as we have somebody joining us directly from deployment. Lieutenant-Colonel Sarah Heer is the Task Force Commander for Operation UNIFIER, and she is dialing in from Ukraine. Welcome to the podcast ma’am.

LCol Heer: Thanks a lot Adam, I really appreciate the opportunity to talk to you.

Capt Orton: So, I guess first thing's first: tell us a little bit about your career and how you wound up where you are today.

LCol Heer: Sure. I joined the Canadian Armed Forces back in 1997. I went to the Royal Military College of Canada, and upon graduation I joined the Artillery. I served a large portion of my career in the 2nd Regiment Royal Canadian Horse Artillery. I’ve got a variety of experience working at the tactical, operational and strategic level. I’ve worked at the Canadian Armed Forces College, I’ve been a career manager, I was the director of human rights and diversity, and I’ve done some time at the Strategic Joint Staff. So currently, I’m the Commanding Officer of the 2nd Regiment of the Royal Canadian Horse Artillery, and I’m also very fortunate to be the current Commander of Op UNIFIER which is Canada’s mission in Ukraine. I’m married, happily married and I have two teenage daughters.

Capt Orton: That’s quite the resume. So, tell us about your current deployment, how’s that going?

LCol Heer: In terms of Op UNIFIER that is, for those who don’t know, Canada’s contribution to assist the security forces of Ukraine, through capacity and capability building. The mission began back in 2015 and it was in response to a request that we received from the government of Ukraine. And the intent is really to help Ukraine remain sovereign, secure, and stable. And our trading mission works pretty closely with a lot of other nations through something called the Multinational Joint Commission. This Commission includes countries such as Lithuania, Poland, Ukraine, United Kingdom, United States, Denmark, and Sweden. And for us, Canada with Op UNIFIER, we deploy roughly 200 members to Ukraine every six months. We are known collectively as Joint Task Force Ukraine, and we operate in a number of different locations. So, our primary focus is really to build the security forces of Ukraine to enable enduring reforms. And we do this through a variety of individual training, collective training, speciality training, in the artillery, combat engineers, some combat medic training, as well as our military police.

Capt Orton: So, why Canada and why is it important for us to be involved when there’s this whole multinational coalition. What do we bring to the table here?

LCol Heer: Yeah, I think from a Canadian perspective, Canada has a long-standing relationship with Ukraine. We have the third largest Ukrainian speaking population in the world next to Ukraine and Russia. So, that connection has always been there. So, I think it’s important for Canada to demonstrate our commitment to this country and stand closely aligned because we believe in the importance of them being an independent country and being able to defend their borders successfully.

Capt Orton: And I guess that falls nicely in line with the mission of the CAF in general so that’s perfect. So, what are the main challenges for being in a leadership position in an overseas command?

LCol Heer: I think primarily the number one sort of challenge is that I am responsible for the safety and security of all members here; that can weigh on you as a commander. But I have a lot of faith and trust in all of the leadership that we have here. To be able to ensure that our members stay safe and secure and that we are able to do the job we are here to do.

Capt Orton: So, what’s the relationship between the soldiers in Ukraine and the Canadian soldiers right now? How’s that shaping up?

LCol Heer: Yeah, we have quite an extensive engagement with Ukrainian soldiers here at various levels. So, at the lowest level, our master corporals, corporals, and privates are working hand in hand doing something called home station training, where we are teaching them direct training such as map reading skills, cam and concealment, navigation. So at the very lowest level we are engaged. Then if you move up to sort of the first level leadership, sergeants, warrant officer, we get into more advising in terms of infantry skills, artillery courses, engineer courses. As well, we have instructors, sergeants, and warrant officers teaching on the Combat First Aid courses as well. And then, all the way up to our officers and MWO’s we are integrated, providing mentorship at the Battalion, as well as the Brigade level.

Capt Orton: I love that that’s good old-fashioned core soldier skills too. That’s the good stuff.

LCol Heer: Yeah, I think that, that’s something very unique about this mission is that we have an opportunity to actively engage our soldiers and put their skills to good use helping our Ukrainian partners.

Capt Orton: So, what are some of the, I know you just said that, that’s a unique aspect of the mission, but what’s maybe a more unique aspect of operating the Ukrainian theatre in general?

LCol Heer: Operating on the Ukrainian theatre I think having to deal with a culture that is not quite the same as our own would be something that is quite unique. Little things, something as simple as when we eat lunch, for instance. In Canada we eat between 11 and 1. Here in Ukraine they eat between 1300 and 1500. That might not seem like an important thing, but when you're trying to develop a training plan with our partners it is something that you have to consider.

Obviously, the language is something else that is a challenge. All the work that we do is primarily done through a linguist. So, when you’re working with a linguist, that takes some getting used to. Jokes and certain expressions don’t always translate well. So that means that in our messaging we have to be very focused in our delivery to ensure that we get the right message across, that our training is effective, and that we keep positive and open lines of communication with our partners.

Capt Orton: I think we covered this also in a previous podcast with the Peace Support Training Center, but using an interpreter can be a pretty big challenge because, you have an extra layer of filter and kind of opinions and thoughts that you are working through and the message doesn’t always get there.

LCol Heer: Yeah absolutely. But I also find, for me personally, it gives me a second to really think about the message I want to get across. So, it’s almost like a, it forces a tactical pause for you to really think. For someone like me who likes to talk very quickly, it’s probably a very healthy thing that I get a second chance to think before I speak.

Capt Orton: So, what do you think up to this point is one of Canada’s biggest accomplishments as a part of this deployment?

LCol Heer: Oh, wow Adam that’s a pretty tough question because I think we’ve accomplished quite a bit. And, I think the one thing about Op UNIFIER is that we are trying to create enduring change. So we are actually focusing all of our training assistance on the next generation of soldiers. So it’s very difficult. You don’t always see tangible results of your work. Because when you are trying to effect enduring change you are actually working towards influencing soldiers that are going to be in leadership positions 10 to 20 years from now. So, in terms of what I am most proud of for ROTO 10? I think for me personally it’s that we’ve re-established close relationships with all Ukrainians, we’ve gotten back to work, in 12 locations across Ukraine in various training institutions. And we’ve done that all faced with the global pandemic of COVID-19 which I think is quite an accomplishment for our tour.

Capt Orton: And, if you consider your average deployment, adding on that extra layer is certainly a pretty incredible challenge. And I really appreciate you mentioning the concept of enduring change, because if you consider for example Afghanistan or other deployments, you’re in there for a very short time as a soldier. And, you don’t necessarily get to experience that enduring change or the challenges that relate to a long-term kind of attempt to provide support. And, people kind of forget that that’s the big mission, it’s a multi-year process, not just your little slice of pie.

LCol Heer: Absolutely.

Capt Orton: So, shifting focus a little bit, surely these days we’ve been focusing on diversity and particularly with your background, what role does that have in maybe accomplishing your objectives as a part of this deployment?

LCol Heer: Yeah, I mean obviously I have some experience working in the diversity field. I can say that I firmly believe, like the leadership in the Canadian Armed Forces does, that understanding diversity really expands our perspectives and enhances our ability to gather info. You know, improve the accessibility, credibility, and effectiveness of our interactions with the host nation. And then specifically, from an Op UNIFIER perspective, the diversity of the makeup of our task force has really allowed us to have a far greater reach and impact that we could have with a single homogeneous group.

So, to give you an example, we have 200 members here from over 40 different trades, a variety of Regular and Reserve Forces, men and women alike, at all different levels. And I firmly believe that having that diversity allows us to be the only country, multinational country here in Ukraine, that is also diverse in our assistance. So, we are one of the only countries that is offering training assistance in the individual training centres, along with in the collective training centres in the Officer Academies and in the NCO colleges. So, I think, yeah; the strength of our diversity is really what makes this task force so effective.

Capt Orton: That seems like a pretty big statement. Can you elaborate a little bit on the impact of that within those training establishments? Like, what practical impact does that have as a part of that process?

LCol Heer: I think the practical impact is that everywhere we go we are providing very solid, practical examples of the strength of Canada’s diversity. So, in having diversity in our leadership teams, diversity in our skills, we are providing a front and centre example for our Ukrainian partners. I think it’s also an opportunity to demonstrate to Ukraine but also to Lithuania, the United States, the UK, and the partners that we work with, the strength of the Canadian Army soldiers. In terms of our experience, our knowledge, and our professionalism in our specific skill sets.

Capt Orton: So, in terms of preparation for this deployment, what specific aspects did you focus on to get troops ready to get kicked out the door and do what you’re doing right now?

LCol Heer: I think I already touched on a couple of them in terms of, we had to get prepared to deal with a culture that is different from our own. That’s where we make use of the training that comes from the Peace Support Training Center; doing local culture, home nation or host nation training as a part of our pre-deployment training package. I talked about the language, getting used to working with a linguist. But ultimately, I think what’s most important for our soldiers as they get ready to deploy on missions like this, especially a capacity building mission, is really being flexible and open-minded in their approach. I mean, we are not here to impose Canada's way of doing business on our Ukrainian partners, we are here to help them develop their own way of doing things. And that really requires all of our members, at all levels, to really use their initiative, their ideas, and be creative in finding creative solutions that are common between our two cultures.

Capt Orton: I really like that, that’s a great answer. So, do you have a good story or maybe a particular experience that stood out for you as part of this deployment?

LCol Heer: Honestly, Adam there’s been so many great moments, I don’t know if I can pick just one. I have learned some lessons though, if you want me to share some of my lessons of being a Task Force Commander, I’m happy to do that.

Capt Orton: Yeah absolutely. Lessons learned are important. We got to hear them.

LCol Heer: Okay. So, a couple lessons that I’ve learned: as a Task Force Commander, I didn’t fully appreciate the complexities of the decisions you face. But I’ve really learned the importance of trusting my gut. You know, the decisions that come to my level are not usually simple. And if they were simple, they wouldn't need to get to my level. So, as a Commander when you're faced with these complex decisions that normally involve two less than ideal options, you really got to look at and choose the one that’s least disruptive to your team. So, what I try to do when I’m faced with these decisions, is I try to listen to the advice and recommendations of my trusted advisors, such as the Task Force Sergeant Major, primarily, and the Deputy Commanding Officer as well. You know, I have a full task force headquarters staff, made up of incredibly intelligent officers and NCOs. And, I try to balance the risk and mitigation strategies available, but 9 times out of 10 it always comes down to trusting your gut and going with what you believe in.

You know I think another lesson that I’ve learned over this mission, especially with our families back home, dealing with the stressors that come with the COVID-19 pandemic, is the importance of leading with empathy. You know, life goes on whether you’re in Ukraine, whether you’re in Latvia, or whether you're back in Canada and we really can’t lose sight of the implications that life-altering events can have on our soldiers while they are deployed. So, as a leader I think it’s really important that all leaders in the Canadian Army are fully invested in our soldiers' well-being and their mental health, and we demonstrate to them on a constant basis that, you know, we care for them, and we are there for them, whenever, wherever they need us.

Capt Orton: You know I really appreciate that at the beginning of your answer you mentioned that if it was a simple answer somebody else would do it. And I remember in the Platoon Commander 2IC Course, there’s one slide that says, “Mission command is not something to be understated”. For those that don’t know, Mission Command is basically letting your subordinates do what you tell them, you tell them your intent and they do the thing. And, it’s just one slide and it says, the challenges of being able to do that is not to be underestimated and they don’t talk about it again. But that’s one of the trickiest bits, I think, of leadership in general. And here you are talking about that as now a Task Force Commander. So that’s interesting.

LCol Heer: Yeah and I would say that the dispersion of our Task Force, we're spread across 12 different locations, some of them being 8 to 10 hours apart. So really, Adam, I don’t have an option other than using Mission Command to be able to command this task force. And I think that a part of Mission Command is ensuring that all of your subordinates understand your intent. So, the onus is really on me to lay out for the team, very early on in the mission, clear direction and guidance so they can get out on the right foot and execute their tasks as needed. What I found worked well on this tour is I brought the team back together again about halfway through the tour to make sure that we all had that common understanding again. And we did sort of a mission reframe, took another look at the work we are doing, and then reset and everyone can go back out and do good work. But that first step of Mission Command is understanding your Commander’s intent. So, I think that’s where my role really comes in, especially with a Task Force that is so dispersed across a large country like Ukraine.

Capt Orton: Well, I think that gives us a pretty good idea of what the Canadian Armed Forces is doing in the Ukraine. Is there anything else you want to add to that ma’am?

LCol Heer: No, I don’t think so, but I really appreciate the opportunity to share with you all of the great work that the soldiers of the Canadian Army and the Canadian Armed Forces are doing over here in Ukraine.

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Capt Orton: Awesome, thanks very much ma’am.

LCol Heer: No problem.

Capt Orton: That was Lieutenant-Colonel Sarah Heer talking to us directly from Ukraine. And, as usual, I’m Captain Adam Orton, for the Canadian Army Podcast. Stay Frosty!

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