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Marek: In going into a situation, you know just when you think you’ve got something figured out from a past experience, really means almost nothing. No one ever drinks the Kool-Aid of how awesome I think I might be because really, I’m not.

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Captain Orton: Many young soldiers join the military looking for a spot in the Special Forces to do some extra cool stuff. Joining us today is Marek, we’re just using first names for Operational Security reasons or OPSEC reasons. And, he’s going to tell us a little bit about his experiences and what it takes to be a soldier in CANSOFCOM.

Hi.

Marek: Hi, how are you doing?

Capt Orton: I’m good, how are you?

Marek: Not too bad.

Capt Orton: So, tell us a bit about yourself.

Marek: Yeah sure. I’ve been in the Canadian Armed Forces for 22 years now. Almost 15 of those have been in CANSOF. I’m a western boy, born and raised in Edmonton. Was living in Calgary when I decided hey now’s the time, I walked into a recruiting center and signed my name down on the piece of paper. But, came out West and joined the military. I joined as a Combat Engineer and spent 7 awesome years with the Combat Engineers before joining CANSOF.

Capt Orton: What rank were you when you joined CANSOF?

Marek: So, I was a brand-new Master Corporal. You know what, I remember it almost like it was yesterday. I was on parade on a Wednesday, promoted to Master Corporal, and then I started my journey with CANSOF on a Sunday. So, I entered SOF brand new.

Capt Orton: Full leadership right in.

Marek: Absolutely.

Capt Orton: Actually, this comes up from time to time just in casual conversation. Did that affect your rank and your promotion structure when you got in, after, you’re a Master Corporal and then in you go. How did that change things for you?

Marek: I’ll tell you, as far as junior leadership goes, it was a quick learning curve. Going through all the phases of the selection and course and then getting into the regiment. It was tough, because I’m learning a new way to operate, a new way to soldier. And so doing that as a new Junior Leader, it was challenging at times. But I was able to quickly get my feet under me and carry on. Almost immediately finishing course I was on deployment. I was a DET 2IC, I did that for about a year – year and a half. Then I was a DET Commander and carried on.

Capt Orton: So, it’s kind of a running joke almost in a lot of different places that a kid walks into a recruiting center: “I want to be Special Forces, that’s why I want to be in the military”. I understand that CANSOF is considered at least, you know, doing the off the street recruiting and all of that stuff, but what does it take in terms of soft skills maybe, you as a person? What does it take to be a good CANSOF soldier?

Marek: Well I think there’s a couple of different aspects to that. I mean certainly if guys and gals are looking to come in as an Assaulter Operator there’s a lot of aspects to that. Mature, self-starter, works great in small team environments, can think really fast, and are a quick learner. And certainly, fitness is a huge aspect to that. But we’ve got another side to that and that’s our supporter specialists. And without our supporters and our specialists that really outnumber Assaulter Operators within CANSOF we just cannot do the tasks that we are asked to do. So, they are critically important. And so, what we are looking for when we are talking about our supporters or our specialists that come in is those people, that again, those people that are mature, are motivated, and we are looking for their talent. The talent that they are going to bring is just really depending on what field that they are coming from. But that talent and experience that they are bringing to be a part of the CANSOF team.

Capt Orton: So, you’re talking about the different trades and different supporters that work within CANSOF. What’s in demand right now? What do you guys need to get the job done?

Marek: So, we’ve got over 90 different trades employed within CANSOF, and they are all critical and they are all important to mission success and operational success. What we are really looking for is INTOPS, Intelligence Operators. We are looking for Med Techs, and we are really looking for Signalers. Cyber is such a big thing nowadays. So, we are looking for those types of specialists to bring that experience and expertise into the Command. Be part of the team for us to be able to be successful on operations.

Capt Orton: Earlier on you were saying how you’re in the engineers and then you made the move to CANSOF. And you spent a certain amount of time in the Army and now here you are. What can somebody expect if they are going to become a member of CANSOF? Are they going to stay there forever? Or is it kind of a move back and forth? How does that work?

Marek: So certainly, if you’re coming in as an Assaulter Operator, the expectation is that you’re going to stay in CANSOF for the duration of your career. Supporters, it’s not so simple. So, supporters will come in and then they’ll go back to the CAF. Or, they might come in, go back to the CAF then come back. The expectation is that when we bring in supporters into CANSOF, you know as they go through their careers, there’s the opportunities back in the CAF that they are going to have to do. But the expectation is we want them back in CANSOF at some point because they bring that CANSOF experience. But not only that, they bring that CAF experience with them as well. And that just strengthens the Command.

Capt Orton: It’s interesting you say that because if you look at early in my career particularly, you know, as a corporal or whatever, there is a lot of sensitivity around troops going off to CANSOF, draining the battalions of the best and brightest. But, at the same time, like you said, if people are cycling through then it gives them the opportunity to do that kind of, learn something new. I’ve heard it said in the past that moving around is what gives you strength because you have that extra knowledge of all these different fields. And now, you’re coming back and bringing that knowledge back.

Marek: Of course, yeah, and look, it is closely collaborated between CANSOF and all the other elements. And career progression of our supporters, you know, officer side and on the NCM side, it is closely collaborated to make sure that it makes sense and it’s good for the members, and it’s good for the organizations; both CAF and CANSOF.

Capt Orton: So, changing subjects a little bit, so we are talking a lot about, let’s call it the big picture stuff. But I’m sure there’s some private corporals out there listening to this like tell us about the cool stuff. So, why is CANSOF awesome? What is so great about it?

Marek: Well look, as I mentioned I’ve been in CANSOF for almost 15 years, and although I have some really awesome memories, and experiences being a Combat Engineer, three deployments with the Combat Engineers, I was a Combat Diver, I even dabbled a little bit in IED disposal. And that was fantastic, but I’ll tell you my time in CANSOF has been absolutely amazing. But with CANSOF I’ve done multiple tours to Afghanistan, I’ve done small team missions to the Caribbean, other parts of the Middle East, North Africa. Recently, I did a mission in Iraq. So, I’ve had all of these wild operational experiences. But really at the heart of it, it’s the men and women that I work alongside at CANSOF. Just the caliber of people I get to work with day in and day out. And of course, the icing on top is these experiences, whether that’s in the training environment or the operational environment.

Capt Orton: And more rounds down range probably I would guess.

Marek: Absolutely. I don’t think it’s any secret that, as far as training goes, we get to do maybe a little bit more. You know, look, it’s required for us to be able to do what we’re supposed to do.

Capt Orton: So, I’ve been to Afghanistan as an Infantry soldier, you know, there’s a lot going on. What does a SOF deployment look like in comparison to something like that?

Marek: Realistically, it’s not any different than a conventional deployment. We’re all a part of the joint force and CANSOF has a small part to play in that greater joint force. We all have our piece, but you ask if the deployments are different, they really aren’t. There’s a job to do, and you do it.

Capt Orton: You have a good story? Something that you got to do that was pretty interesting?

Marek: A lot of the things that we do down range is capacity building. So, you know, linking up with host nation forces and building their capacity, all pre-conflict. Gaining that understanding on the ground in these different places that we are tasked to do that. Making the relationships and strengthening the host nation forces. Those are the types of things that we do. And, you know, I just want to say that it requires a really diverse group of people to do that. I go back to, we are really looking for INTOPS, SIGS, and CYBER, as well as Med Techs. You know, we are looking for diversity in thought, diversity in experiences, because let's face it: all of those places that I’ve listed that I’ve been to, they’re fairly diverse themselves. So, to have that diversity in our teams really creates a stronger team that we can do that capacity building down range.

Capt Orton: So, here’s a random question actually, is, with that kind of experience that you’ve had I would hazard a guess with the knowledge I have of CANSOF is probably you get more deployments than maybe your average soldier in the Regular Army. Can you tell us a thing that you’ve maybe learned from working within these host nations? There’s got to be something from experiencing all these different cultures, and all that diversity, and operating in basically with different militaries. Have you learned anything interesting from that?

Marek: You know it’s really to stay humble. And going into a situation, you know, just when you think you’ve got something figured out from a past experience, really means almost nothing. You know, you go into a new country or a new situation, having to learn all of the intricacies of that situation and the personalities, and the people, and the cultural sensitivities. It’s always something new. I find that challenge, that’s one of the things I really enjoy about being in CANSOF.

Capt Orton: I think that’s a pretty powerful message. MWO and CANSOF, pretty much at the peak of what a soldier could be. And now, here you are saying that even you walking into these environments, you're like, there’s something new to learn here and something still to grow and especially perhaps with the lower ranks, the perception would be once you hit there you're kind of on the decline at a certain point. But you're saying there’s always something new to learn in these environments. And as somebody who is at your level, basically at the peak of that already.

Marek: Absolutely. And, like I’ve already mentioned, it’s about staying humble. I’ve had to learn that lesson a few times. You know, don’t ever drink the Kool Aid of how awesome I think I might be. Because really, I’m not and yeah, it’s just all of those experiences that CANSOF has given me over the years. You mentioned it earlier; CANSOF is very busy. I wouldn’t trade any of those nearly 15 years for the world. I mean it has been awesome, for lack of a better term.

Capt Orton: So, here’s another question: people get into a routine especially if you're deploying a lot and it kind of becomes a little bit of your identity and people enjoy it. But also, there’s definitely a risk of burnout. How do you handle that?

Marek: Well I have a very understanding wife, I think. You know, the type of people that are in CANSOF, maybe it’s cliché to say but we kind of live for that. But I’ll tell you, you mentioned burnout. It is something that we recognize, we know is a problem, and so we manage it. We manage it very closely, because the last thing we want to do is burn out our members. Talking about Assaulters and Operators, doing their careers in CANSOF, we need to protect that. And we need our members to stay healthy and to have healthy home lives of course as well.

Capt Orton: Yeah absolutely and that can be a tricky balance to strike. So, after all this good stuff here we are talking about why CANSOF is great and all these adventures. How do you start? How do you get in?

Marek: Well I think the first thing you need to do is say to yourself: “I want to be a part of CANSOF”. And then put in your notice of intent.

Capt Orton: The end.

Marek: Go check out the website, and more information will be listed at the end of the podcast.

Capt Orton: Yeah, the information will definitely be in the show notes, so listeners: feel free to check that out. So, I guess another thing that anybody that wants to get into CANSOF is going to ask is obviously selection is very, let’s say, maybe not a secretive process but definitely its got its own unique perspective that’s maybe not best talked about. But do you have any tips for anybody who is looking to apply, and maybe getting prepared both physically and mentally for selection?

Marek: Yeah certainly. Look: two elements of it that you said right there, both mentally and physically. I think physically you're looking for endurance, that is the biggest word of advice for being physical. And I say this all the time, it is 10% physical and 90% mental. So you need to mentally prepare. And look, I’m going to make no bones about it, selection's going to suck. It’s going to be tough and you’re going to question why you are even there putting yourself, your body through that. It’s that mental toughness that is going to see you through. And really that desire. Like, look, this is what I want, I want to be a member of CANSOF, and I want that more than anything. And that is sort of a key ingredient in that.

Capt Orton: You talk about mental toughness and, you know, generally from a physical fitness standpoint, it’s pretty mechanical. You eat right, you hit the gym, you have a good exercise plan. You are going to get there as long as you do all of those things. And you know, even I consider pre-deployment and deployment. And how, generally, work up training is more challenging in order to make the fight maybe a little bit easier. How does one stay mentally robust, other than maybe remaining humble?

Marek: I think it comes from desire. Anybody can train to be fitter. You know, tactical know-how, that can also be trained, but you need to have the desire, that desire to want to be sort of the best. To face challenges, to not back down, and to think. I mentioned it earlier, fast learning, fast thinking, and just that mental toughness to say look I’m cold, I’m wet, this really sucks, but I’m going to get through this. I’m going to do what I need to do; I’m going to see it through until the end. That’s the mental toughness we’re looking for.

Capt Orton: I think that’s a pretty good note to end things on, do you have anything else you want to add?

Marek: You know look, my time in CANSOF has been absolutely, I wouldn’t trade it for the world. You know the experiences, operationally and in training. It has been absolutely outstanding. I think though the biggest thing I take away from is just the men and women that I work with every day. Just driven people that are just amazing. You know whether you’re an Assaulter Operator, supporter specialist, one team we all pull together. We all bring our expertise and our knowledge and our experiences together to be able to do the missions that we are asked to do. Even to this day, it still amazes me.

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Capt Orton: That was Marek from CANSOFCOM. Hey, thanks a lot for being here.

Marek: Thank you.

Capt Orton: I’m Captain Adam Orton for the Canadian Army Podcast, and if you’re interested in joining CANSOFCOM talk to your chain of command or check out the show notes with links to how to join. As usual, stay frosty!

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