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Corporal Morgan LeBlanc: At the end of the day, the military is a chapter in your life. If you just put that in the front burner, and once that chapter is done, you are going to be standing there by yourself.

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Captain Adam Orton: Hi! This is Captain Adam Orton with the Canadian Army Podcast. And today, we are going to be doing something a little bit different. I’ve got an old buddy of mine from 2nd Battalion, PPCLI. And we are going to talk about different courses that he’s done, deployments—maybe talk about a non-standard career or what the journey looks like. Today with me from Gagetown is Corporal Morgan LeBlanc. Welcome to the podcast.

Cpl LeBlanc: Thank you, sir. It’s a pleasure to be here. It’s always good to catch up with an old Patricia brother.

Capt Orton: Yeah, you know it. So, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Cpl LeBlanc: Sure. I was raised here on the Southeast Coast of New Brunswick in a small Acadian village. So, Gagetown here is kind of home to me. I’m 41 years old—not really sure how old that would make me in infantry years.

Capt Orton: Like one-hundred.

Cpl LeBlanc: Yeah, that’s right, eh. But you definitely don’t feel 41 or 100 years old—that’s for sure. You know, this job kind of keeps us fit. So, that’s good. I’m a proud husband, I got a beautiful, strong, independent wife, who has been by my side supporting me, celebrating my highs of highs, and has been supporting me without flinching through my lows of lows. I’m a proud father, I have a daughter, and a son who are young adults now, carving their own path into this world. Very recently, I became a proud grandfather.

Capt Orton: Wow.

Cpl LeBlanc: Yeah, so I have got a little granddaughter at home. So, maybe I am getting old. But, no, it’s good. Other than that, yeah, I’m currently serving at the Infantry School, which is a part of the combat training center here in Gagetown. My role there for the last two years has been a photographer and a graphic designer there. Which is, surprisingly, a pretty busy spot. We do quite a bit. And, yeah, I would say that’s about it in a nutshell.

Capt Orton: So, for people that are listening who might be wondering why this guy? We thought we should talk to somebody who has a solid career in the Infantry—but maybe took the non-standard route of just progressing through the ranks and hitting all the checkboxes. And, I’ve known Morgan for quite some time, and he’s done a lot of super cool things. So, let’s start off by talking about your time in the Patricia’s and the Infantry.

Cpl LeBlanc: Yeah, sure. So I started the Infantry, the Princess Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry, 2nd Battalion in Shilo. It was in 2006. I originally came from the Reserves. I don’t know if you wanted to hear about that as well.

Capt Orton: Yeah, absolutely. Let’s hear the whole story.

Cpl LeBlanc: Alright then. Put on your helmet son. No, but, yeah, I started actually in the Reserves in ‘97 as an Armoured Soldier, out of high school with the Reserves. It was the 8th Canadian Hussars Princess Louise’s—which is a pretty good regiment. I started there as a Cougar Gunner. The cougar is not in service anymore, but it kind of looks like the initial version of the LAV that we have today, the Light Armoured Vehicle. And, it’s got six wheels instead of eight. It has a scorpion turret which is a British reconnaissance vehicle, I think. That’s how I started my career as a gunner in that cougar tank—it was a lot of fun. I did that for, you know, I went through all the qualifications there, from gunner to commander and everything. And stayed in the Reserves for about nine years, about, and then decided that I wanted to do something different. I felt like there was something else that was missing as a soldier—so that’s why I decided to transfer to the Infantry in the Regular Force.

So, from there, once I went to Shilo, I got there in June or July, I think. We became right away, the Op reserve. Which was for the Task Force 3-06 Battle Group, we currently had A company that was out the door as we were coming in. So, we became kind of the replacement group should there ever be a need to replace anybody. So, they got us qualified on just about anything that they could. You know, the machine gun course—any vehicle in the compound that they could qualify us on, and you know, just a lot of ranges and everything. And then, around December I got picked up to go as a replacement, which ended up being a really good experience. So, I deployed the tail end as Op Medusa was finishing up. Got there in December and I think it was around February when we came back. So, I never had met a company before, so I just kind of made my way there and they accepted me as a part of the team. And then, yeah, it was good.

About a year later, I redeployed again to Task Force 1-08 with the Charlie Company, and I did I think it was seven months—or six or seven months there. And, same pretty much area as we were in before. Got to see a little bit of the winter part of Afghanistan and the summer as well. And the evolving tactics, and how we changed things along the way. But, overall, I think it was positive. We did a lot of good there. After that, I think in 2009, I got the opportunity to go on the U.S. Army Ranger Course. Phenomenal experience as well. Good gut check, that’s for sure.

Capt Orton: Yeah, gut check—gut check indeed. Do you want to talk a little bit about what that was like? I’m sure there are people out there who are just like: “Yeah, I want to go on the Ranger Course. That sounds super cool!”

Cpl LeBlanc: Well I’ll tell you what, it is probably ten times more effective then Weight Watchers for one. But, no, it was good. I would say it’s about four phases. You have the wrap week, the ranger of assessment week, is where they do all your selection process. So, you got your physical testing—so it’s like push-ups, sit-ups, pull-ups, running, ruck marching. They tested your phobias, your water phobia, your height phobia—that was interesting. We started the course. I think there were like over four hundred people. There were companies forming up. And we started off with the push-ups, and you lose over one hundred people right off the bat with push-ups.

After the first week, if you pass everything, then you go into the Darby phase. Which is, kind of like section level tactics. So, you learn their way of doing tactics. And the course is pretty much all patrolling, raids and ambushes. So, it’s not, it’s pretty much all green phase. The Darby phase is section level, and the second phase is the mountain phase. So then you go into platoon size organizations and tactics, in the mountains in Dahlonega, which is part of where the Appalachian trail starts. And then the next phase, the final phase, is the swamp phase which is in Florida.

Capt Orton: The best part for sure.

Cpl LeBlanc: Yeah. You know you see those movies where soldiers are walking in the water, through swamps, and it all looks smooth and badass. But when you start adding the roots underneath, you get caught up in, and fall in the mud. It’s not as sexy as it looks, that’s for sure. That’s kind of how it runs, the phases. It’s sixty-two, sixty-four days. It’s not really a whole lot of break. You get an eight-hour pass between the Darby and mountain phase, and then you get a four-hour phase between the mountain phase and the swamp phase, and that’s about it for your off time. So, it’s pretty much one straight go. So, you don’t eat a lot, you don’t sleep a lot, it’s a gut check. They are trying to make leaders that are not going to crumble under pressure. You know, they make you tired, they make you cold. I did mine in February, so you know, even that, just the element there. You don’t really wear your jacket; you just wear your combats. So out in the mountains it does get really cold.

But it was a great experience, you know. It was kind of interesting to see how similar the Americans do things as the Canadians. So, there wasn’t a whole lot of—in terms of how we do things, like a frontal and a flanking. It is a frontal or a flanking. So, there was not, you know the battle procedure is still relatively the same. So, there are things that are different, but overall it was not hard to kind of adjust. Right? At the end of the day, we were doing a patrol at night, with an MMG on, it feels like you’re just on a patrol with Canadians. You don’t really feel that you are any different. The assessment part was interesting. In order to pass each phase, you had to do five assessments. And, you had to have three passes in order to move onto the next one. So, after every assessment, it was all a leadership assessment. So, either, if you’re in the section phase, the Darby phase, you have to be assessed as a section commander. And if you were in the mountain or the swamp phase, it was platoon level leadership positions.

So, when you do your mission, they would debrief you, but they would never tell you if you pass or fail. So you only knew at the very end of each phase whether you carried on or not. So, I found it was very interesting in kind of keeping you motivated and not switching off because you don’t know, you have no idea if you’re going on or not. Also adds a little bit of stress level as well because you can’t shut down. You just have to keep your A game on 24/7 because, you know, you don’t want to fail anyone else off of it too, right? But I think it was a really good positive experience for me that kind of helped me along in my career, to kind of open doors, and be able to relate to some of the hardships that others have gone through. So, yeah—I definitely recommend it to anybody that ever has the opportunity to do it. For sure, I strongly encourage it.

Capt Orton: I like how you said it helps you relate to the other hardships other people are going through. Because, particularly, in the Infantry, you know, not throwing anyone under the bus here, but particularly in the Infantry you get caught up in your old little mindset of how difficult things are. Or, even outside of the infantry, you know, I’m a staff officer doing staff officer stuff. And sometimes they get frustrated with my situation. But it’s important to have empathy and compassion for your fellow soldiers that are going through their own stuff, and no matter what they are going through, you gotta kind of be there to support them regardless of what their background is.

Cpl LeBlanc: Well, yeah, exactly. And, you have people—even during that course, we had people from all different countries. Not just Canadians and Americans, you had people from Columbia, Czechoslovakia, and for some of these people it was a whole different world for them. And, to kind of help them along was good. Even the hardships that I see here, like some of the young officers coming through the training here, the school, the dismounted platoon commander course like the 1.1. And, you know, it’s a really hard course especially with the limited amount of time in it they have. Everything that they are doing is relatively new. Like they don’t have the background experience that some of us had the privilege to have. So, when I go and support these courses either though as a storeman or as a photographer—like I am now, or whatever—I kind of see what they are going through, and you kind of relate to that, and it gives you a level of respect that also regardless of where they are in their career, what they’re going through you can kind of relate to that, and it gives you of respect that what they are doing is challenging and it’s something to be proud of.

Capt Orton: Since we’re talking about this, why do you think it’s important—I mean aside from maybe getting perspective on other people’s challenges—why do you think it’s important to go through these gut check processes?

Cpl LeBlanc: I think it helps you grow. Right? Anytime that you’re able to get out of your comfort zone, that’s how you grow. And, if you always stay where you’re comfortable, you’ll never evolve. And, it’s kind of like that analogy of the lobster. A lobster, when he gets big enough, he kind of discards his shell and another one gets built. And, as long as he keeps growing, he’s going to discard his old shell, and get a bigger one. So, it’s kind of the same thing for us, if we want to grow, we have to go through hardships and some troubles. Otherwise, you will just kind of stay the same. It keeps you resilient as well, you know, if you, you know, I wouldn’t say challenge yourself 24/7 every day of the year but you kind of do it in sprints where you challenge yourself to something that is uncomfortable, something that is stressful and then comeback, re-group, re-focus, and then, grow from it and then try something else that’s challenging.

Capt Orton: So, you did the ultimate gut check, or maybe not the ultimate gut check, but certainly an ultimate gut check of the ranger course. Where did you go from there?

Cpl LeBlanc: From there, it was about a year later, I got the opportunity to come to Gagetown. For me, this is my home province, so I was happy I actually wanted to come back here just to be closer to family. My wife at the time, we weren’t married, she had stayed here because of her career and stuff. She was here in Gagetown—we were doing the long-distance relationship from Charlottetown, New Brunswick, so we would see each other once every three months. So, it was kind of good to be in the same area code, the same time zone, after four years. So, that was one of the main reasons I wanted to come to Gagetown. And from here I just stayed at the school and did various jobs from being a driver for courses, to being a storeman. It was all about supporting the courses and working in the QM in the weapon vaults and that kind of thing.

And then, two years ago, I have a big passion for photography. So yeah, two years ago I ended up becoming one the photographers for the school. For the last close to ten years, I’ve been just staying here, and yeah, going through various positions here at the school.

Capt Orton: So, you went from a hard charging infantry guy in the battalion—and now you’re working out of a school, and you’re doing some QM support tasks. Why’d you make that change?

Cpl LeBlanc: I think for one it was family, I needed to make some changes for the family. We’re going through some stuff at home that I needed to be there. That was the main reason I decided to change the pace. Because, at the end of the day, the military is a chapter in your life. If you just put that in the front burner, and once that chapter is done, you are going to be standing there by yourself. So, I felt at the time it was important to look after that point, that area. And, now that I’m here, you know, it just kind of ended up staying here. I’m happy where I am, I wouldn’t regret it. You know, I had to make certain sacrifices, but in the end it’s all worth it.

Capt Orton: What would you say to a soldier who is maybe feeling like they need a change in pace? And, maybe they need to figure out that challenge of balancing career progression and moving forward. Versus other considerations like, you mentioned family, and other things like that. What would you say to somebody going through that?

Cpl LeBlanc: Yeah, that’s a good question, eh.

Capt Orton: Yeah, I put you on the spot there a little bit.

Cpl LeBlanc: Yeah, yeah. That’s good. It takes a bit of patience. Nothing happens overnight. Like, you can’t all of a sudden—let’s say you want to kind of put your family first, or you want to kind of take a change of pace—it’s not a snap of a finger. You’ve got to wait for the system to kind of align itself for you to support you. So, if you’re a hard charger in a rifle platoon and all of a sudden you want to change. It’s not like an “okay, Monday report here” instead. Right? So you’ve got to have some patience. But I find that if you work hard at what you do, and you’re a part of the solutions, and if you’re always working harder than you're supposed to be, then you should, you always have people looking after you and willing to fight for you to help you. So, I would say just work hard and do the best you can and be part of the solution. And, when you ask for something, a lot of times people will be more accommodating to help you, as opposed to feeling like you don’t deserve it.

Capt Orton: Why do you remain in the infantry trade given the kind of change in direction you're taking. Why not choose a different trade?

Cpl LeBlanc: I’ve actually thought about that, especially being pretty much the image tech position that I’m doing. So, a lot of people will ask me: “why don’t you just go image tech?” It’s the dream job to be the Peter Parker of the Infantry School there. And just waiting for my Spidey powers to kick in, I guess. Yeah, I’ve thought about that, and I think right now they are happy with what I produce. It’s cool in a way that I know the language—like if I go on assignment to shoot a course, because I know how people react. A lot of times, if you go on a patrol or they are doing a hasty attack you can tell they are tired. I can also tell what is going through their heads because I’ve been there. And, you can also predict where they are going to go next. So, because I know their world, it helps me do a good job as well. As well as when you go in a weapon range, you know the drill, you know where to position yourself. If I were to go image tech and they put me on a Navy boat, I would probably be quite lost. And, I don’t know if I would be able to produce what I’m able to produce now. I mean, I’m still thinking about it. Maybe one day I will change, but for now, it’s working really well for me. And, I think my unit is really happy with what I do—and they are happy to support me in a position here. It’s in the back of my head that I think about it. But, for now, I’m very happy the way it is.

Capt Orton: I like how you mention that kind of all of these things come together. And, earlier on you were talking about getting support from your chain of command. It takes a little while for the system to kick in, you know. Sometimes when we go through a potential life change, you want solutions now. But if I look at the story that we discussed up to this point, I look at my career and how I’ve gone a little bit off the normal path, and, you’ve gone a little bit off the normal path, there are options for you there. And, there are also ways that you can use all that experience that you’ve got regardless. Even if your staff officer role or an image tech working out of a school. All of that background material kind of comes together nicely. And, you can use it, to plug the Army here real quick, but to make the Army a better place. Even though you’re not necessarily functioning in that primary role of Infantry Soldier, or Armoured Soldier, or whatever it is that you are.

Cpl LeBlanc: That’s absolutely right. And, it’s interesting how when you first join, you have an idea of what your career is going to be. You know, you have an idea of what you want your career to look like. As you pick up certain things along the way, and certain ideas and certain situation changes, you know. If you were to ask me, when we used to hangout in the platoon room’s together, if you had told me, “Morgan you were going to be a photographer for the Infantry School”, I would have laughed at you and said “Yeah right”, you know. But it’s interesting how, I guess the journey, and sometimes what your career ends up being is not even close to what you would think. But, it’s still nonetheless—like, I wouldn’t change anything. And, just because it’s not what you envisioned, doesn’t mean that it’s not right, and it doesn’t mean that you can’t support, and can’t do a good job. That’s how we evolve sometimes if you kind of think outside the box and not a cookie cutter. You know, sometimes new things, new ideas surface, and new ways of doing things come up. So, yeah, it’s all good.

Capt Orton: Well, I can’t think of a better note to wrap things up on. Anything else you want to add?

Cpl LeBlanc: The only thing I would have said, and I think I mentioned it before. Is you know, be patient in your career and allow things to kind of shift. And, if you always do more than your share of work, you will always have people willing to help you out. That would be my closing statement, I would say.

Capt Orton: That’s awesome. Listen, even more so, then I think normal, thanks for taking the time to tell us your story. I think this is a pretty personal conversation compared to most of the podcasts that we do. I really appreciate you coming on the line all the way from Gagetown and just telling us your story.

Cpl LeBlanc: It’s a real pleasure, sir. It’s quite an honour to be given an opportunity like this. I think anybody who’s ever asked to come on your podcast to do this I think they should definitely do it. It’s a big Army, but it’s a small one at the same time. So, it’s good that we can all help each other out.

Capt Orton: Thanks a lot; I really appreciate it.

Cpl LeBlanc: My pleasure sir.

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Capt Orton: That was Corporal Morgan Leblanc, working out of the Infantry School as a photographer and all-around good Infantry soldier. This is Captain Adam Orton for the Canadian Army Podcast. Don’t forget to send us your feedback through the email address available in the show notes. And, subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or whatever you follow us on. Stay safe, and stay frosty.

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